Pet Lover Geek

From The Vault: Hiking With Pets (What You Need To Know)

April 16, 2022 Lorien Clemens Season 7 Episode 7
From The Vault: Hiking With Pets (What You Need To Know)
Pet Lover Geek
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Pet Lover Geek
From The Vault: Hiking With Pets (What You Need To Know)
Apr 16, 2022 Season 7 Episode 7
Lorien Clemens

Many of us love to hike, and most of us love to be able to take our four-legged friends with us, but how do you know what to take? What steps do you need to take to make sure your pet will have an enjoyable and safe time? How can you find the best places to take your pups on an adventure with you? On today’s show, we will be talking to some of the best in the industry when it comes to hiking with your beloved fur kids!

Show Notes:

Thanks for listening! Check out our sponsor, PetHub for more great pet parent resources.

Have an idea for a PetLoverGeek episode or have something else you want to share? Drop us a note to

Show Notes Transcript

Many of us love to hike, and most of us love to be able to take our four-legged friends with us, but how do you know what to take? What steps do you need to take to make sure your pet will have an enjoyable and safe time? How can you find the best places to take your pups on an adventure with you? On today’s show, we will be talking to some of the best in the industry when it comes to hiking with your beloved fur kids!

Show Notes:

Thanks for listening! Check out our sponsor, PetHub for more great pet parent resources.

Have an idea for a PetLoverGeek episode or have something else you want to share? Drop us a note to

00:00 Music

00:00 Lorien Clemens

You know, hiking with pets, it's something that I personally love to do -- well actually I guess I really only do it with my dogs -- I do know that there are people who do go hiking with their cats, and there are certainly other pets like horses that can join in the fun too. You know, maybe not fish, but you never know. But let's face it, hiking is a big deal, especially where I live out in the Pacific Northwest and certainly dogs. Dogs are out hiking on the trail all the time. It's a really common thing to see. Love watching them explore new places. They are so filled with energy and unbridled excitement and joy because they're getting to explore new scenery and new places and smell all the fabulous smells that are out there. But you know, it's really important that just like humans who are going out on a hike, the dogs are also prepared to go on the hike, whether they be a long hike or a short hike, and today we've got some great guests on the show that are here to talk about what we need to do to prepare your dog for hiking. How to care for them on the trail, how to fuel them, and just what you should know about hiking with pets on the trails. So up first we have our very own hiking with pets experts, but she is the blogger of You Did What With Your Wiener and she also works hand in hand with a lot of things that we do at PetHub, whose core sponsor is Pet Lover Geek. So welcome to the show, Jessica Williams.

01:15 Jessica Williams

Yeah, thanks.

01:16 Lorien Clemens

I'm really excited to have you. We've had you on the show before and you're always delightful to talk to and a wealth of information. So I really -- I want to dig in though on what is your bailiwick? It's what you do a lot of and what you're known for -- which is hiking with dogs. So let's start off with some of the basics. What are some of the core essentials that you always carry no matter how long the trek, that you always carry when you're hiking with your dogs? 

01:40 Jessica Williams

Well, the number one thing is plenty of water, so even in the winter water is really important. So water and I carry a collapsible dog bowl like one of those silicone ones or something. But those things a lot of people don't think about that I always take is the first aid kit that has stuff in it for me and the dogs. Now the size of the first aid kit varies depending on the length of time and like how far we're going from the trailhead or how crowded the trail is. You know you probably get help along the way or something, but a first aid kit, and as far as the dogs go, I'm sure to bring like a tick puller, even though we don't have many here on the West side of Washington state. We have seen a few and we definitely see more in the central and the east side. The tick puller and then what they call co-wrap or like vet-wrap which is basically a wrap that you can use to protect the wound, to keep dirt out, or to put on a bandage. It's like a tape.

02:42 Lorien Clemens

It's the stretchy stuff that sticks to itself?

02:48 Jessica Williams

Yeah, it's like if you've ever gone and given blood or gotten your blood taken at the doctor, they put a cotton ball on, and the stretchy stuff sticks to itself. So those are two things I bring for sure. The rest kind of for human stuff also works for dogs, and then I also bring something -- I have small dogs with larger dogs It's more difficult, but it's something you need to think about is how are you going to carry your dog out or what are you gonna do if they get injured. So for me I can carry a small extra backpack that I can put them in and carry them out if I need to, but if you have a larger dog, you need to think about fashioning some kind of stretcher. So bring some supplies that would help you do that.

03:27 Lorien Clemens

So there's a lot to unpack in just that little bit that you said. I wanna go back let's start first with water because I was hiking (this last summer) and I, of course, bring a lot of water for both my dogs and myself and I have like you, I have a special -- I don't use a bowl for them. I actually use one where the top actually flips out and creates a bowl for them, which is really handy, but I ran across hikers that will come by us actually when we're stopped for a water break and their dogs are wanting to get water and they don't have water and they literally say things like, "Oh well there was a Creek up there that I let them and I knew that there was going to be there for them to drink along." And why is that a dangerous assumption for pet parents to make about, "Oh, there's going to be a creek or there'll be a lake that we're going to. They're not going to need to have extra water." Why is that dangerous?

04:07 Jessica Williams

The number one reason is because a dog can get Giardia, or worse, Leptospirosis which is just basically from drinking contaminated water and it doesn't even have to be stagnant to be a risk. The other thing is especially a lot of streams and stuff are seasonal, so even if you've hiked that trail often, several times a year, you may be going in the time of year that happens to be dry and so this water source you think is going to be there isn't, but to me the biggest thing are the diseases and bacteria they can pick up.

04:42 Lorien Clemens

Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because we actually have Lepto. We got both of our dogs inoculated for that but there are other things that they can get in the water that is pretty gross. Let's kind of switch back to what you were saying with the first aid step because you know hiking with pets can be really fun, but depending on where you're hiking and just fluke, it could become dangerous. So let's dig a little bit more into those safety tips and those precautions. A, how do you try to prevent your pet from getting injured? And then also you know, like you mentioned, things you got to keep in mind that if your pet does get injured, you have to be ready to deal with. Let's start first with those precautions, things to keep them from getting injured in the first place.

05:20 Jessica Williams

Pretty much the number one thing is to constantly be paying attention to your dog and check them with your hand. Like when you stop, check them over, check in their armpits to see if there's any chafing. Check on the breastplate if they're wearing a harness, check their pads, make sure there's nothing stuck in between or that they aren't getting abrasions or cuts because prevention is the best medicine, right? What happens is a lot of people don't notice until they're 5 miles into a hike with their dogs limping a little or lagging behind, and by then it's maybe too late. Maybe they've already -- they started getting chafed or injured in mile one, and now you're at five. So it's turned a small problem into a big one, but the other biggest thing, again, prevention, and this is for both you and your dog is always check conditions and trail reports before you go. There's a Facebook group if you're in Washington called Canines in the Cascades, and it covers all of Washington state, but there may be local Facebook groups for hiking with dogs or even just hiking in general where you live, and you can oftentimes post and say I'm looking to go to this trail. Who's been there recently? What were the conditions? You may have a state-wide website like we have Washington Trails Association that lists all of the hikes and their trip reports -- user-generated trip reports on there -- and also always check the avalanche conditions especially in the spring, because snow is really unstable. So there's usually a website that we have the Northwest Avalanche Center, but there's usually websites for where you live. If you live where it snows, of course.

07:05 Lorien Clemens

Right. Well and where you and I live, it's nice and beautiful and sunny down in Seattle land, but we drive just 15 minutes away and 3,000 feet up and things can be remarkably different than they were down in the city.

07:18 Jessica Williams

Really different, yeah.

07:19 Lorien Clemens

And you know, that's great that you also check on the conditions because just two weeks ago there was the big mudslide at the West Fork Trail, which is you know, again off the beaten path, not that you would necessarily know about it, but it was a big deal as far as the mudslide went, so that's great and in general, having a plan before you even start your hike rather than, "oh let's just go hiking" and picking up and going. That's critical, right?

07:42 Jessica Williams


07:44 Lorien Clemens

Now let's talk about equipment. I know I sent you questions ahead of time and I'm kind of putting this on you, but I'm realizing and looking at these. We didn't really talk about equipment, so what are your favorite pieces of equipment? Not necessarily those that you can't live without, but boy, I really like this equipment that I use on these hikes. You mentioned a backpack for example.

08:00 Jessica Williams

It's kind of like for comfort you mean?

08:02 Lorien Clemens

Comfort for you, for the dogs, you know, like are there particular styles of collars or harnesses or leashes? Something that people that maybe don't think about that would be better for hiking than you know general walk in the city.

08:14 Jessica Williams

Yeah well for me a big game-changer is like a hydration bladder and a backpack because it's a pain to stop every... You should be drinking every you know 15 minutes. You should be taking a few drinks of water and it's a pain to stop that often and take your pack off and get the bottle out and so what happens like with me is I just don't. I push through it and then the next day I pay because I'm dehydrated and I have a headache. So the bladder is really nice because it has tubes that come down the side. You can just drink on the go. For the dogs, I always hike, I have Dachshunds and they're known for back problems, so I hike with them in harnesses. A lot of people you know may want to use a collar but I do recommend a harness because if nothing else, if your dogs looked off the trail or if you're crossing a bridge and they slip or something like that. If you have a collar you can only imagine how bad that would be if you're lucky they don't slip out of it. If you were to catch your dog by the neck if they fell, so having a harness is super important because -- one that fits well -- so that there is a hope that you can catch them and hold them and just basically yank them back up. Kind of like rock climbing on belay-like yard them backed up by the leash. So those are the two most important things I think and for people footwear is the most important thing you need to invest in. My dogs don't wear boots, to be honest dogs don't really need to wear boots in most cases. You really only need to put boots on them if they have foot problems. You know if you've proven their foot problems. Otherwise, it'd actually be more of a hindrance to them because they can't feel the ground naturally and their nails can't dig in, and you have to be careful what boots you get because some have more traction, some have less, but if your dog needs it, boots are important too.

10:11 Lorien Clemens

What about folks that say I don't like having my dog on a leash when I hike? What are your thoughts on that?

10:17 Jessica Williams

You know my thoughts on that have changed a little bit over the years. Somewhat kind of. I mean, I'm a rule follower in most cases, so to me if the law is that your dog needs to be on leash, then it needs to be on leash. There's a reason. If nothing else, other users that come to hike the trail know there's a leash law and expect that they're going to encounter any dogs that those dogs will be leashed. So it's just respectful to people as if you're hiking on a trail that leashes are not required by all means you don't have to use one, but your dog does has to be under strict voice control. You need to have control of them. I was on the trail once where a leash was required but the person didn't have the dog on a leash and I'm hiking along and the dog runs past me and I thought it was going to maybe catch up with his owner, but nope, it comes back and goes the other way. I mean, we're talking about period of like 10 minutes and finally I see a guy coming up the trail that owns the dog and this dog has been running back and forth harassing other hikers and other dogs and that's just not cool.

11:24 Lorien Clemens

No, it's not. It's etiquette, right? And so what is the etiquette if you have a dog on the trail? Not everybody else on the trail is there to hike with dogs and be around dogs. So what's the etiquette for a pet parent that you need to make sure your dogs are adhering to?

11:39 Jessica Williams

The best thing to do if you can is when you see someone coming is move your dog to the opposite side of the trail so it's not between you guys. It's on the outside or inside depending on which side you're on, but most trails, at least around here, are pretty narrow, so really passing even two people wide with a dog is difficult and can cause someone to maybe misstep and slip off the trail. So if you can, you know maybe take your dog, put them on the opposite side of you from the person that's coming and step off the trail where there is a wide spot. Like don't climb up in the bushes. Don't try and scramble up a hill, don't you know... Just maybe you need to back up a couple 100 feet to a wide spot and then you can wait for the other person to come by. If the trail is wide enough, just move them to the opposite side of the person coming. You know and keep them by you. If they're not on a leash and if they are on a leash, you want to keep that kind of short because you especially don't want your dog jumping up on the other person with muddy paws because even the best dog lover doesn't necessarily like strange dogs jumping on them and getting their clothes all dirty. That's true and one of our dogs is really bad about that, so that yes, good notes. Now you mentioned that your dogs are Doxins, and I know from following you and your blog religiously that they're out on the trails a lot, but there's a lot of people that are super skeptical, like "Oh my gosh, that's so.. you shouldn't be taking your dogs on these big long hikes. Isn't that hard for them? How can they hike at all?".

13:09 Jessica Williams

Pretty much everyone's skeptical?

13:11 Lorien Clemens

Right! So talk about that. I mean like hiking is not just for big dogs, it's great for little dogs too. Talk a little bit about that.

13:19 Jessica Williams

So the point I'm always trying to drive home to people is a dog's athletic ability and interest has more to do with their breed than their size. So, for example, Great Danes, not saying they can't because every dog can be trained and conditioned to do any sport, and hiking is a sport but generally great Danes aren't meant for going really long distances. They're kind of... They like to lay around a little more, whereas people are going to think of one small dog that's active, Jack Russell Terrier is going to come to mind.

13:58 Lorien Clemens


13:59 Jessica Williams

And those dogs have crazy amounts of energy and they're small. Dachshunds are bred for hunting. They followed people, they're forester or whatever through the woods to find badgers and rabbits and flush them out. So they used to cover a lot of ground. Their legs aren't short because they can't walk, their legs are short because they're meant to burrow down in holes, and therefore you can't have a lot of long legs getting in the way so, but they have really high endurance and stuff, so it's just every dog no matter what breed, does need to be conditioned to hike, just like people, you know cleared with your vet that you know a new activity is fine and start small and then go big. You know, start with walks around the neighborhood, then increase the length and difficulty of hikes, but the ability really comes down to the breed not the size and the nurture. You know the nature and nurture but...

14:52 Lorien Clemens

Love it. People can find all about that on your blog. Tell them the web address, how to find a lot more. 

14:58 Jessica Williams

So it's, that's spelled WIENER, and the reason I say that is because a lot of Doxin people spell it WEI, but it really doesn't matter how you spell it because you type it in and Google will be like, oh there's only one crazy lady with that blog name so... Even if you just partially get it right it'll probably come up.

15:21 Lorien Clemens

Yeah, you guys have such great SEO there on your site that if you just put you did what with it comes up with wiener.

15:27 Jessica Williams

Or probably hiking Dachshunds, it would probably come up.

15:30 Lorien Clemens

Yeah, it comes up, awesome. Well, thank you so much Jessica, really appreciate all the insights you gave us today.

15:36 Music

15:36 Jessica Williams

Sure, great. Thanks for having me on.

15:38 Lorien Clemens

Absolutely, stay tuned pet lovers when we come back we're gonna be talking to the great Amy Burkert. She is the founder of a popular website and blog, Go Pet Friendly and she is going to bring us some amazing ideas about where to go, and what to do, and how to prepare when you are getting ready to go hiking with your pets. Whether it is taking those dogs out into the the hiking trails that are in your backyard or taking them all the way across the country into places that you've never been before. Amy has done it all and she has got some amazing stuff to share with us. 

16:09 Music

16:23 Lorien Clemens

Thank you so much for coming on the show today Amy.

16:25 Jessica Williams

Thank you so much for having me. 

16:27 Lorien Clemens

I'm not joking when I tell you you're one of my favorite people on the planet and I think you know that, but I would love...

16:34 Amy Burkert

The feeling is mutual.

16:35 Lorien Clemens

Well, and I've known you now for gosh, almost seven years, six years, something like that for quite a while.

16:40 Amy Burkert

Yeah something like that.

16:41 Lorien Clemens
I love the story about how you got started with Go Pet Friendly so I'd like if you could just take a minute to share about how this whole thing started, not just the blog, but your entire life. How you guys changed everything. 

16:55 Amy Burkert

No problem, so in 2008 my husband and I were both CPAs by background. So people who, you know, like to live inside the box typically and one morning we were walking our Shar Pei Tie. We came home from walking Tie and we found a big black German Shepherd hiding behind the construction dumpster in front of our townhouse in Philadelphia, and we put him on a leash and started looking for his people and nobody came forward and so we ended up adopting him and then discovered how hard it was to travel with him because he was a 70-pound German Shepherd.

17:33 Lorien Clemens

A lot bigger than that little Shar Pei.

17:36 Amy Burkert

Yeah, exactly breaking the weight restrictions, hotels, and like you know there are places that have breed restrictions that discriminate against German Shepherds, and so we found that it was a much harder than we anticipated to take him on a family vacation and the first trip that we took was about 3 1/2 week road trip and we needed seven hotels. It took me 2 full days to find 7 hotels where Buster and Tie could be.  Could be in the same room and where Buster wasn't breaking the weight restriction where they weren't charging an arm and a leg for a pet fee. So on that trip, we decided that we would start a website that would make it easier for everybody to travel with their pets and not just find hotels, but find restaurants and beaches and dog parks and wineries, and have some support on there for places like boarding facilities and doggy daycare and pet supply stores. So really it was a one-stop shop for what people needed and then we built the road trip planner and that was really the cherry on top.

18:34 Lorien Clemens

Yeah, that's an amazing tool by the way. Amazing tool.

18:36 Amy Burkert

People can type in where they're starting from and where they're going to and it'll map their route and find all the pet-friendly things along the way. That's how we got started.

18:43 Lorien Clemens

That's how you got started, but the postscript of this whole thing is at some point you and Rob said you know what? Let's just chuck this whole house-living thing. Let's just get rid of it all. We're gonna put our house on wheels and you now have an RV that is wrapped with Go Pet Friendly logos and everything. It's gorgeous and all you do is like you're on the road constantly exploring the United States in that RV.

19:03 Amy Burkert


19:04 Lorien Clemens

It's incredible. 

19:05 Amy Burkert

Yeah, for a little bit more than eight years now, I can't believe how fast the times gone by, but yeah we've been living in -- first started out in the smaller RV -- and now we're in the bigger RV that you're describing, and yep, we've been in an RV now and Tie and Buster with us for a little bit more than eight years time. Buster has now been in every one of the lower 48 states at least twice.

19:24 Lorien Clemens

That's incredible. Have they been to Alaska?

19:27 Amy Burkert

We have not been to Alaska and the boys have not been to Alaska, so that's on a list for future trips.

19:33 Lorien Clemens

Well, when you and I are offline, I should talk to about a plan that my family and I have to do Alaska that you actually might be really interested in. okay, but let's get back to the interview. All right so you basically travel the entire country looking for pet-friendly places. You are 100% the expert in all of this, so we're talking today about hikes, and I want you to kind of talk about... So when you're looking for a new place to go hiking with your pets, particularly when you're on vacation and your pets are with you and you want to go someplace where you can just blow off some steam, get out in nature with your pets. What are the most important things that people should be looking for when they're looking for those new hiking places to go?

20:06 Amy Burkert

Well, I think probably the most important thing is to find a trail that fits you and your pet. So as I said, Rod, and I've been traveling with Buster and Tie for a little bit more than eight years now. Buster just turned 11 and Tie will be 14 in September, so the kinds of trails that we choose have changed over the years. We used to pick places where... Our dogs are also not the perfect travel companions you might say, Tie is afraid of other dogs and strangers and Buster is leash reactive to other dogs. So we would take their particular circumstances and challenges into account when we picked a place so I would always think about a place where dogs had to be on leash. That was one of my things because my dogs don't appreciate being approached by strange dogs. So that was one thing that we always looked for. Now we think more about what's the duration of the hike. How long are we going for? What are the elevation changes because the elevation changes are obviously going to make it harder, they need to be in better condition and our dogs, our senior boys just don't do that much elevation anymore. And then the other thing I think about is obviously a combination of the weather and the amount of shade that we might be able to get on a particular hike. So the footing also I think about. So I like trails that are pretty well-groomed now. Buster and Tie both appreciate having a pretty well-groomed trail. Sometimes now Tie even goes in a stroller so if we're going to go for a longer hike he can't really do distances much anymore. So then I'm actually looking for maybe a paved path or a rails to trails kind of place where we've got a pretty great path that we can push a stroller on. So it kind of depends on you know where your pet is on that continuum of you know how in shape they are, how hot it is, how humid it is. Remember to take the humidity into account as well because that really affects and elevation, right? So elevation will really affect you, your hiking ability, but also your dog's hiking ability as well. So if you're headed out to the Tetons, for example, and you're going to be at elevation, then you need to be sure that.. Be conservative in how far you estimate that you can go.

22:10 Lorien Clemens

And I've actually had this happen with a 55-pound dog and you know 70-pound dog. Buster's kind of the same thing but it's kind of one of those, you might get a certain way into it, and then the dog can't make it anymore. The dog might get injured, the dog might what have you. You got to be able to get that dog back out so you know that should always be on your mind. Now I know here in my own neck of the woods. Where to go online. We have a great WTA site here in Washington state, but when people are doing these researches. Where can they go online to start researching about -- if they're on vacation and they're getting someplace that there may be not familiar with -- because there are a lot of great online places. Where can they start going to find those online resources for hikes?

22:52 Amy Burkert

My favorite app, it's actually an app, so I've got it on my phone is All Trails. I love it because they will actually tell you if pets are allowed. It gives you a really solid description of what the elevation changes and what the trail is covered in. If it's covered at all and you know then you can read the reviews from other people who have hiked it and they say, you know this was strenuous or I took my 2 year old and they did fine. Well if somebody's 2-year-old, you know, was able to do the trail then I feel pretty confident that Tie and Buster will be right there to.

23:20 Lorien Clemens

And I would say too, that if it's not, because I use that app as well, but there are some trails that I've looked that I've heard about through the grapevine or whatever, and then I'll look it up and they're not on there and I think, you know, if it's not a popular enough trail to actually get a review, then maybe it's not good for my dog. It might be fine for me, but it's probably not good for my senior dog. 

23:40 Amy Burkert

I agree with you. Yeah, it's one of the things that I definitely take into consideration as well. If nobody's bothered to write a review or post pictures of it, you know, maybe not someplace that I feel like I know, unless I'm like in the backyard, right? We're doing a lot more National Forest camping and so if we're camping out in the National Forest, you know we may go hit a trail just because it's right there and you know, we're not going to be that far from the car. If it looks like it's not going to work out, it's not a huge investment, but if I'm you know if I'm looking at going and spending a day doing something along, you know, hiking in having a picnic, you know, going up to a lake, something like that. Then I want a little bit more feedback before I take off for the first time with my dogs. 

24:20 Lorien Clemens

Yeah and is there a good way -- so like, especially when you're in a different state or whatever, and some you know you mentioned the National Forest and some national parks have pet-friendly areas. Some state parks obviously have a lot of pet-friendly areas -- but where do you find out those rules and regulations because they differ sometimes from place to place, and it is important that you know the rules and the laws around having those animals, so where is the best place to find all that out?

24:41 Amy Burkert

Online right? I mean, it's really the best to go online. We've written over 250 destination guides for different places around the country. So for example, if somebody's thinking about going to Acadia National Park up in Maine, we've got all the rules and regs for Arcadia on the website, and you know, if you go to the blog post about it, we've got photos and what we did with our dogs in a little secret dog park -- off leash area -- that a lot of people aren't aware of just outside the national park's boundary. So you know those are the kinds of places that I go, like I would look at the National Park website also will have details on where you can take your pets and where they're not allowed. National Forests, you can pretty much assume in a National Forest that pets are allowed on all the trails as long as they're on leash, and cleaned up after. So the national forests are super pet friendly. The national parks to a lesser extent. There are some national parks that are super pet friendly. Like I mentioned Acadia, the Grand Canyon also, the whole South rim trail at the Grand Canyon is 13 miles long and the whole thing is pet friendly, but then you'll find other places like I mentioned the Tetons earlier. Dogs aren't allowed on any trails inside the National Park in the Tetons. So then what I do if I'm going to be in a place, you know, vacationing in a beautiful place, like the Tetons, and you want to get out and do some hiking is I always look for a National Forest because I'm certain that the trails there are going to be pet friendly. So and there's almost always a National Forest in the vicinity of a National Park. It's kind of funny how that works.

26:12 Lorien Clemens

Yeah, definitely. No, it's definitely, we found the same thing when we were visiting Rainier, we realized, ah shoot, there's not really many places in Mount Rainier National Park that you can take the dogs, but around Mount Rainier National Park, which still has an incredible view of the actual mountain, there's a ton of pet-friendly stuff. I want you to just -- we only have about 3 minutes left, but you mentioned Acadia. You mentioned Grand Canyon. Are there other like top destination, pet-friendly hiking areas that you visited over the years? 

26:42 Amy Burkert

Oh yeah, there are and actually, I'm releasing a book next week and what we did was we chose the number one pet friendly attraction in each of the lower 48 States and DC and we went and visited them all last year. Every one of them. It was a 15,000 mile road trip.

26:58 Lorien Clemens


27:00 Amy Burkert

Yes, it was. That's exactly the word that I've been using to describe it. It was absolutely epic. I don't really recommend that anybody else do it all in one year. It was kind of... It was maybe a little much, but to write the book and bring it all together it worked out well for us and in the book, we talked about all the hikes that we went on and the best places to go and also give advice about the things that we did and and how we did it, and then there are also more than 200 photos, full-color photos. People can really get a feel for what it was like for us and what it would be like to be there with their pets. So yeah that's coming out next week. 

27:43 Lorien Clemens

Tell us the name of the book and where people are going to be able to find it.

27:45 Amy Burkert

Absolutely, so it's called The Ultimate Pet Friendly Road Trip and it's at and for your listeners, we have put together a page where they can grab the chapter on Washington's number one pet-friendly attraction.

28:02 Lorien Clemens

Yay! Now one thing I wanted to just.. because you mentioned we only have like a minute left for you to talk, but you mentioned the stroller that Tie sometimes uses and I know that you have a couple of must-have type products that you use with hiking. I would love, just because we like to geek out on products here and the latest greatest, are there any like must have things that you think are listeners just need to know about?

28:23 Amy Burkert

Yeah there are a couple of things. So we have martingale lead collars for our dogs so that they are not able to slip out of them. It's a really important thing when when you're hiking with your pets to make sure that they've got on a nice Martingale collar. The ones that we get are through Alcot and they've got a neoprene lining in them. They're really comfortable. They've got some reflective threading in them as well, so they have some of that, so that's important. I love harnesses, the harnesses from 2 Hounds Design that have -- you can either attach them at the chest or in on the back between the shoulder blades -- that's what our dogs usually hike in. Buster also wears a backpack sometimes, and that's handy if you want him to carry his own water. Something like that have to be sure that everybody has plenty of water and then you mentioned the stroller that Tie's in, it's actually a turbo jogger from Ibiyaya, IBIYAYA and it has changed our life for being able to take Tie and go on hikes, you know, he weighs about 35 pounds, so he's too big to carry, and at this point in his life he's just not able to keep up on a hiking trail, so otherwise, we would all be sitting on this if we couldn't put Tie in th stroller, we'd all be sitting on this sofa. So yeah, that's been a life-changer.

29:39 Lorien Clemens

Awesome, well thank you so much for mentioning those. I knew that there were some things that you were definitely relying on. I appreciate that. Thanks so much for joining us today, fantastic stuff.

29:46 Amy Burkert

Thank you.

29:47 Music

29:47 Lorien Clemens

I wanted to make sure I send out a shout out to our other guests on the show today. Jessica Williams from You Did What With Your Weiner and all her great tips on hiking with your pups and make sure that you go check out Incredible tools there and some of the best pet friendly areas where you live in your backyard or on a road trip that you'll be able to find to set up your trip, really great stuff. Pet Lover Geek has been brought to you by PetHub. Come check out all of our other shows. We've got lots of other fabulous things to help you and your pet live wonderful geeky lives together. 

30:19 Music